When the Mai Lai story broke, people were horrrified. Now a new Mai Lai happens every day in Gaza, the sahel, Sudan (and probably a dozen other places we haven't learned of yet), and hardly anyone is bothered. The times they are a changin' - just not the way Dylan thought.
Thank you so much for this. I remember Mai Lai as a young person and it’s the event which took away my cultural virginity for ever. This is what Stanley Milgram meant when he said that he could staff a concentration camp from any mid sized American city.
I’d love to know what Walter Kirn thinks about this video. It was he (or a friend of his perhaps), who tried to explain away this savage nightmare as the result of stress, or survivors guilt, by soldiers who had had buddies blown up by Vietnamese forces. According to this theory, they lost it when they saw a village that might have shielded guerrillas and killed them all in revenge.
And , as usual, the peacemaker was labeled a traitor.
It’s not quite as simple as that. You can’t separate the actions of soldiers who participated in egregious acts from the ROE foisted upon our military by it’s leaders. Our guys were getting slaughtered (the North Vietnamese were ALSO causing horrific suffering) because our leaders basically issued vague orders. Oftentimes civilians were used and participated in the guerilla warfare. Guerilla warfare in which our guys had zero experience. It made them desperate and confused as to who exactly they were fighting.
Another factor that should be seriously considered is the rampant use of hard drugs. Did it cause some of our troops to act in such horrendous ways?
All this said, I am NOT defending the actions. But war is absolutely AWFUL which is why we must always fight to maintain peace and hold those who were responsible accountable. Calley was the only one prosecuted and actually had his sentence reduced. But I suspect it was because the military leadership KNEW there own culpability - but of course, no one in leadership was ever held accountable.
This should be a stark lesson in promoting people for the wrong reasons- DEI etc- instead of strict adherence to merit-based promotion policy.
we should not have been there. (as usual) we were invaders. this is like being outraged that Iraqis were killing american soldiers. that we go around the world committing mass murder and mayhem while considering ourselves the good guys boggles the mind. every thinking person knows better, and it's the reason the rest of the world can't wait for our empire to fall...
I have seen it- it is very well done but clearly but one view.
And yes, I agree- we never should have been there. I lived the Viet Nam war, had a brother who served but got crapped on when he returned.
You won’t get an argument from me that we need to get out of the business of sticking our nose in where we have no ACTUAL vital interest.
My views have evolved a great deal- sadly I bought the Bush/Cheney line but after these past 8 years, the scales have dropped. But I was a military wife and you did ehat you were told- including mowing your lawn, shoveling your walk, stopping for reveille and taps and not complaining when you got locked down at the commissary due to an alert. The CIA and neocons have become out of control and need to be utterly exposed. People like us were USED by people who had agendas.
And I am not trying to normalize anything. I am pointing out it’s not as simple as you claimed. What I am saying is war is hell. But our leaders are ultimately responsible. We drafted young men barely experienced in shaving into battle- do you really believe they had the moral courage to stand up to their asshole platoon leaders? Remember your 18 year old self? Were you a paragon of virtue?
Whether you all like it or not we need a strong military. We need strong, smart and ethical leaders who understand they are public servants not using power and influence for personal gain. And we need soldiers. sailors, airmen and marines willing to serve and follow orders.
When I say “our guys” I proudly mean the American fighting military forces. Have you served in the military or had loved ones who have?
I'm glad you've begun to let the scales drop. It's not easy. Matt's short piece is about a young man in the thick of it who somehow did the right thing when the choice was forced on them. That is always uncomfortable for people who did the wrong thing, or just looked the other way and didn't do the right thing. Hugh Thompson's story is one that should be much better known, celebrated by our leaders, taught in schools and incorporated into basic training for our soldiers. The fact that his name virtually unknown to most Americans is tragic and shameful. I would also challenge your contention that "we need a strong military." No, we only need a strong military is we insist on running a worldwide empire for the benefit of a bloated financial elite that uses our taxes and our young people to maintain that empire and its wealth. It's not easy for 4% of the world's population to keep the rest of the world in line.
Hugh Thompson was a hero who we should laud and emulate! I have been a strong believer in “ peace through strength,” however that model is rapidly deteriorating in the age of drones. Personally, I believe the capacity for evil lies in every human being. It is up to each one of us to develop well-formed consciences based on clear ethical frameworks. Justice and mercy are two sides of the same coin, one cannot exist without the other. Same is true of rights and responsibilities.
EVERY adult American citizen has this responsibility. It begins with you and me.
I'll never forget the grieving mother of one of the first americans to die in Iraq. through heaving sobs she screamed, 'he was the kindest person. everyone loved him. all he ever wanted to do was grow up to be a sniper, and those savages killed him!' so many immediately jumped on her bandwagon. to this day her lack of self-awareness (sadly typical for our citizens) blows my mind...
Thank you Matt, this was short and absolutely epic.
thank you Matt, he must be remembered. And our atrocities around the world must not be forgotten.
I wonder if the IDF will give out medals to any of their brave soldiers who stopped the massacre of civilians in Gaza.... Oh, wait.
When the Mai Lai story broke, people were horrrified. Now a new Mai Lai happens every day in Gaza, the sahel, Sudan (and probably a dozen other places we haven't learned of yet), and hardly anyone is bothered. The times they are a changin' - just not the way Dylan thought.
Thank you so much for this. I remember Mai Lai as a young person and it’s the event which took away my cultural virginity for ever. This is what Stanley Milgram meant when he said that he could staff a concentration camp from any mid sized American city.
I’d love to know what Walter Kirn thinks about this video. It was he (or a friend of his perhaps), who tried to explain away this savage nightmare as the result of stress, or survivors guilt, by soldiers who had had buddies blown up by Vietnamese forces. According to this theory, they lost it when they saw a village that might have shielded guerrillas and killed them all in revenge.
And , as usual, the peacemaker was labeled a traitor.
Excellent. thanks Matt
Wow! Thank you, Matt.
I wish it was a 'love' button, instead of a 'like'.
It’s not quite as simple as that. You can’t separate the actions of soldiers who participated in egregious acts from the ROE foisted upon our military by it’s leaders. Our guys were getting slaughtered (the North Vietnamese were ALSO causing horrific suffering) because our leaders basically issued vague orders. Oftentimes civilians were used and participated in the guerilla warfare. Guerilla warfare in which our guys had zero experience. It made them desperate and confused as to who exactly they were fighting.
Another factor that should be seriously considered is the rampant use of hard drugs. Did it cause some of our troops to act in such horrendous ways?
All this said, I am NOT defending the actions. But war is absolutely AWFUL which is why we must always fight to maintain peace and hold those who were responsible accountable. Calley was the only one prosecuted and actually had his sentence reduced. But I suspect it was because the military leadership KNEW there own culpability - but of course, no one in leadership was ever held accountable.
This should be a stark lesson in promoting people for the wrong reasons- DEI etc- instead of strict adherence to merit-based promotion policy.
we should not have been there. (as usual) we were invaders. this is like being outraged that Iraqis were killing american soldiers. that we go around the world committing mass murder and mayhem while considering ourselves the good guys boggles the mind. every thinking person knows better, and it's the reason the rest of the world can't wait for our empire to fall...
hear hear!! ps substack doesn't let me like comments...
I have seen it- it is very well done but clearly but one view.
And yes, I agree- we never should have been there. I lived the Viet Nam war, had a brother who served but got crapped on when he returned.
You won’t get an argument from me that we need to get out of the business of sticking our nose in where we have no ACTUAL vital interest.
My views have evolved a great deal- sadly I bought the Bush/Cheney line but after these past 8 years, the scales have dropped. But I was a military wife and you did ehat you were told- including mowing your lawn, shoveling your walk, stopping for reveille and taps and not complaining when you got locked down at the commissary due to an alert. The CIA and neocons have become out of control and need to be utterly exposed. People like us were USED by people who had agendas.
And I am not trying to normalize anything. I am pointing out it’s not as simple as you claimed. What I am saying is war is hell. But our leaders are ultimately responsible. We drafted young men barely experienced in shaving into battle- do you really believe they had the moral courage to stand up to their asshole platoon leaders? Remember your 18 year old self? Were you a paragon of virtue?
Whether you all like it or not we need a strong military. We need strong, smart and ethical leaders who understand they are public servants not using power and influence for personal gain. And we need soldiers. sailors, airmen and marines willing to serve and follow orders.
When I say “our guys” I proudly mean the American fighting military forces. Have you served in the military or had loved ones who have?
AND, Where exactly did I prevaricate?
I'm glad you've begun to let the scales drop. It's not easy. Matt's short piece is about a young man in the thick of it who somehow did the right thing when the choice was forced on them. That is always uncomfortable for people who did the wrong thing, or just looked the other way and didn't do the right thing. Hugh Thompson's story is one that should be much better known, celebrated by our leaders, taught in schools and incorporated into basic training for our soldiers. The fact that his name virtually unknown to most Americans is tragic and shameful. I would also challenge your contention that "we need a strong military." No, we only need a strong military is we insist on running a worldwide empire for the benefit of a bloated financial elite that uses our taxes and our young people to maintain that empire and its wealth. It's not easy for 4% of the world's population to keep the rest of the world in line.
Hugh Thompson was a hero who we should laud and emulate! I have been a strong believer in “ peace through strength,” however that model is rapidly deteriorating in the age of drones. Personally, I believe the capacity for evil lies in every human being. It is up to each one of us to develop well-formed consciences based on clear ethical frameworks. Justice and mercy are two sides of the same coin, one cannot exist without the other. Same is true of rights and responsibilities.
EVERY adult American citizen has this responsibility. It begins with you and me.
Also, were your Uncles also were among those who participated in “egregious episodes of horrific abuse toward the Vietnamese?
Seriously? No respect for your uncles? For other Americans who serve? Do you believe a military is even necessary?
I'll never forget the grieving mother of one of the first americans to die in Iraq. through heaving sobs she screamed, 'he was the kindest person. everyone loved him. all he ever wanted to do was grow up to be a sniper, and those savages killed him!' so many immediately jumped on her bandwagon. to this day her lack of self-awareness (sadly typical for our citizens) blows my mind...